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HELP DNA Testing question - What I Wish I Could Change About My Surrogacy Experience - Surrogacy Forums - Page 2

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HELP DNA Testing question HELP DNA Testing question

#16 Guest_phrogger_*

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Posted 16 October 2006 - 10:55 AM

Sorry, my response was after I miss read the post to me. The lack of quotes did confuse me and I thought this person was asking me if I had talked to my SM. I was stating I AM the sm but I see there was just a lack of quoting being done. As for the question.

Quote

This is very interesting questions and we have not addressed this question if our IF sample was not used…. To answer the question we would still want a baby but feel we should not have to full compensation as we are not receiving what we agreed to pay for….


Sorry but you are not paying for a baby. You are compensating your surrogate for her time and effort in being pregnant and bring a child hopefully into the world for you. While it would be a sad situation if the surrogate did indeed not hold up her end of the deal by refraining from sex, you still aren't paying for a baby. Only for her pain and suffering for being pg. I am concerned that you feel a baby is a comodity to be bought and sold. :(/>

Quote

OK, But please keep in mind the story has two sides and only you know for sure and with some IPs the compensation is a huge amount of their life savings…. As we wrote before if our surrogate was against the idea we would put up a red flag….


Again it seems to me that the issue is more about money and not your SM's trust, her ability to be honest with you or your faith that you have put into someone else to achieve parenthood. I am truly saddened that you would even discuss the risks of doing an invasive procedure to get information NOW rather then waiting till the birth to save a buck. If the Sm said no AFTER delivery, yes I would have issue with that, but if this blood test isn't 100% accurate (just like those sex blood tests aren't I have an IM friend who was told by blood test she was going to have a boy, but it was a girl). Anyway, if this test isn't accurate and it shows something is off, then you stop supporting your SM and cut off contact, but then the baby is born and it is found out that the child IS the IFs, but at this point you have ruined all trust and the relationship has gone down the tubes, is that worth it to save a buck?
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#17 User is offline   4ofmyown 

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Posted 16 October 2006 - 12:24 PM

Ditto Daff.

I would in no way risk the life of any baby just to put my IP's fears to rest over DNA with a dangerous procedure such as amnio or CVS. I think most contracts allow IP's to test for DNA but it is safer to wait until baby is born.


"not getting what you are paying for"

Please.............With this attitude it will be difficult to find the kind of support you are looking for.
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#18 User is offline   surromama 

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Posted 16 October 2006 - 12:42 PM

With my own curiousity asside, maybe we all need to back off. This is a board for info, help, and support. We dont need to know the whole story. She came here for support in a decision in her personal life. If it were any of us " regulars", wouldnt we expect to just get an answer, no questions asked?. She has never posted before, so she must be at a loss and in need of support, not picking apart her personal life.
I personally think we need to answer her question/s to the best of our ability and leave it at that. We can all sit at our computer and wonder and chastise to our hearts content, by ourselves.
JMHO
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#19 User is offline   texsurromom 

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Posted 16 October 2006 - 01:15 PM

I mentioned this to another surro the other day and she said that DNA testing (or the possibility of the IP's requesting it) was in her contract. And the OP of this thread said it was in her SM's contract, too. So by all means, whether any of us feel it's a matter of trust, they have the right to ask ESPECIALLY since it was brought up before and is in the contract.
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#20 User is offline   Love2givelife 

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Posted 16 October 2006 - 01:27 PM

I have heard there is a new non-invasive test that can be done through testing via the mothers blood. They can extract fetal cells from her blood sample at around 12 weeks pregnant. The problem with that is, if she has had other children (or been pregnant and miscarried) before, then those other fetal cells can be still be circulating in her blood. From what I understand the fetal cells can be there for years. This type of test would only be accurate if she has never been pregnant before.

If she agreed to a DNA test when you did contracts then I am sure she has no problem doing one or has anything to hide. Thing is, does it state she agrees to have the test done before or after birth? If before, is invasive covered? Some women avoid invasive procedures when pregnant, not because of dna, but because of the risks and possible pain & suffering involved. I'm guessing the contract addresses what would happen if the baby wasn't the IF's.

I agreed to have a DNA test done even though I was a GS. I think the issue would be *when* she agrees to have it done. If an amnio test has already been planned on, then a paternity test could be done at that same time.
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#21 Guest_possibilities_*

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Posted 16 October 2006 - 04:22 PM

Some states require proof of paternity in order to process a pre-birth order, TS or GS. If these IP's want a PBO, (and depending on their state of residence/delivery) it may be required as part of their legal process.

Imagine being an IP, who, after say, 15 years of TTC, failed or disrupted adoptions, etc., finally move forward with TS. After hearing horror stories of babies switched at birth, mothers who lie to their spouses about paternity, surros who do not actually insem, surros who have unprotected/poorly protected intercourse prior to cycling, it is no wonder that a little extra reassurance might be needed. Now, after all that, imagine taking a baby home after birth. Years of hurt, pain, and loss fade into the background as the IP's hearts are wound around this little person's finger. Perhaps the babe becomes ill, requiring medical attention. Much to the IP's shock, this child is not biologically related to the IF. Or perhaps the SM has regrets. Regrests so significant that
her only peace can be found in taking the child home. Court proceedings ensue and wouldn't you know.... the child is actually that of the SM and her husband.

Don't say this doesn't happen. IT DOES. Situations like this have come across these very boards.

Why on earth would they not want to spare themselves, the SM & her partner, their extended families, and most importantly THE CHILD, the disruption which comes with undisclosed paternity ?
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#22 Guest_Guest_*

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Posted 16 October 2006 - 04:50 PM

Once again thanks for all your replies.
********************************
Daffodil
I did by no means mean to be offence in my tone… all I was saying was we should be careful about stating numbers that may alarm the community….

I felt that your posting saying 2 babies will die for every 100 tested w an amino was a touch overstated and that post that might scare folks…. 1 in 50 babies will die ….. when the truth is 1 in 400 may be injuried… Image if you were over 35 and the dr requested an amino, which they do in majority of 35+ women and then you read this post….

As for your second reply:

I would be against it, simply because i do not feel it is worth risking a pregnancy at this point, not because I would be affraid "of what you could discover!!!"

That is exactly why we posting on this msg board to try to learn about all our options.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -
You folks on this msg board have such a wealth of information that may folks post to learn not to be insulting…..

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growinit4them

I think that they have every right to a paternity test if it is in the contract. If there is nothing to hide what is the problem?

I can see there side of this. this i a huge finacial burden to the IP's I would happily do the amnio or blood for my IP's. I fail to understand that is there is nothing to hide what the issue would be? It is there child, if they choose to take on the risks, that is there choice. The risks are minimal from the stats at the atlanta clinic. we take risks everyday that we carry the babies that we do.
I think they have the right to have the testing done, if I were the IP's I would have wanted the test.

good luck

REPLY – Thanks for seeing both sides.

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4ofmyown

I would in no way risk the life of any baby just to put my IP's fears to rest over DNA with a dangerous procedure such as amnio or CVS. I think most contracts allow IP's to test for DNA but it is safer to wait until baby is born.
"not getting what you are paying for"

Please.............With this attitude it will be difficult to find the kind of support you are looking for.

REPLY – I am sorry if it seems like attitude it was not meant to be…We are paying our surrogate thousands to have the IF’s baby, or to be politically correct for the pain and discomfort associated with the pregnancy related to the IF baby, and do not want to pay all our money for other…. That is why I wrote "not getting what you are paying for"


Image if you were an IP and found out about a process that is non invasive (blood test) that could tell you about DNA before birth…why wait until birth and until you paid the surrogate thousands and then what ….. try to reclaim the money?

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surromama

With my own curiousity asside, maybe we all need to back off. This is a board for info, help, and support. We dont need to know the whole story. She came here for support in a decision in her personal life. If it were any of us " regulars", wouldnt we expect to just get an answer, no questions asked?. She has never posted before, so she must be at a loss and in need of support, not picking apart her personal life.
I personally think we need to answer her question/s to the best of our ability and leave it at that. We can all sit at our computer and wonder and chastise to our hearts content, by ourselves.
JMHO


REPLY - Thanks for your comments, and greatly appreciate your openness. I am only trying to learn all of my options.

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texsurromom

I mentioned this to another surro the other day and she said that DNA testing (or the possibility of the IP's requesting it) was in her contract. And the OP of this thread said it was in her SM's contract, too. So by all means, whether any of us feel it's a matter of trust, they have the right to ask ESPECIALLY since it was brought up before and is in the contract.

REPLY – Thanks for your comment, and might think other Ips may be interested in this topic as well

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Love2givelife
I have heard there is a new non-invasive test that can be done through testing via the mothers blood. They can extract fetal cells from her blood sample at around 12 weeks pregnant. The problem with that is, if she has had other children (or been pregnant and miscarried) before, then those other fetal cells can be still be circulating in her blood. From what I understand the fetal cells can be there for years. This type of test would only be accurate if she has never been pregnant before.

REPLY – Do you know the level of accuracy on this test? Could you get a false positive, meaning the test result says the IF is the father, and in fact is not based on an later swab test …. Or only false negative saying the IF MAY not be the father and in fact is???

If she agreed to a DNA test when you did contracts then I am sure she has no problem doing one or has anything to hide. Thing is, does it state she agrees to have the test done before or after birth? If before, is invasive covered?

REPLY - The contract states a DNA test can be performed before or after birth.

Some women avoid invasive procedures when pregnant, not because of dna, but because of the risks and possible pain & suffering involved. I'm guessing the contract addresses what would happen if the baby wasn't the IF's.

REPLY – The contract states that if the DNA is conclusive then the compensation stops, and the Ips have the right to reclaim all funds….. But it does not say what happens to the baby, which I wrote above that I would still want to adopt but not pay all the complete compensation…. I understand this comment is very open ended and controversial and hope you do not dig into this as I am truly only trying to learn about all possible DNA testing vs discussing specifics on $s, and what ifs….


I agreed to have a DNA test done even though I was a GS. I think the issue would be *when* she agrees to have it done. If an amnio test has already been planned on, then a paternity test could be done at that same time.

REPLY – We do not have an amino planned and find it is interesting that a GS would do a DNA test as my OP was discussing TS w home insems….

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It seems on this board one should be very careful to bring up questions that may reflect a negative side of surrogacy…

As my OP reflected PLEASE we are not looking to be lectured on trusting our surrogate just looking for info regarding testing options…..


Thanks,
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#23 Guest_Guest_*

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Posted 17 October 2006 - 06:17 AM

WOW!! You women are so quick to rip this women to shreds for simply attempting to research her options. What a disgrace!! this thread has even been brought to another board known for slander. Why? because some TSs are too insecure to deal with IMs so they want to tear down all IMs. How sad that a couple invests their life savings to achieve their dream of having a baby biologically related to them and want to cover all bases to insure they are not being decieved and you all jump on her throwing out statistics as to shame her.

Funny thing is there a trillions of oops babys born everyday and plenty of scamming surros out there as well. Don't say it doesn't happen because IT DOES. TSs change their minds and how convienent it would be for a TS to decide to keep a baby because she suddenly finds out that it was hers dhs and not her IFs.

I am sure if the OP was looking to adopt a baby they wouldn't have sought out a TS.

Oh and for the poster with hole in the pants analogy, Newsflash!! Many stores will give a discount if a garment has a hole in iot, so not only are your facts innaccurate but so is your analogy. Nice way to scare off a newbie with such a warm welcome.
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#24 User is offline   TXGS 

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Posted 18 October 2006 - 10:01 AM

View PostGuest, on Oct 17 2006, 06:17 AM, said:

Oh and for the poster with hole in the pants analogy, Newsflash!! Many stores will give a discount if a garment has a hole in iot, so not only are your facts innaccurate but so is your analogy. Nice way to scare off a newbie with such a warm welcome.


Not a great argument, as we are talking about a human life here, not a pair of pants! I am hoping you are not implying that IP's that end up with a child that has health issues beyond anyone's control should get a "discount" because the child is not perfect...because your argument above implies that.

As for the OP, I think it is great if you can find a safe way to test the paternity of the child; but I agree that it is a bad idea to have invasive procedures done for money issues or peace of mind. After all, regardless if the child wasn't your husbands, if you still took the child and raised him/her, the surrogate deserves all compensation; the pregnancy and giving birth is not any less painful because it is not your husband, and that is indeed what you are giving $$ for...whether you see it that way or not.

There are risks in all of these ventures, both TS and GS. I would be devastated if my IP's actually thought they were paying me for a healthy baby; because I can say right now that if I were doing this for the money, $25,000 would NOT be my asking price!! For money only, I would ask for $100,000 at least for all the pain and discomfort I am going through, not to mention the strain on my family. The compensation I do get is for my pain and discomfort, as well as my children and husband's sacrifice during this process; not for a baby. I just hope you keep that in mind. Not intended to be a lecture, just a bigger part of the picture!

Good luck in finding a simple solution to the paternity test!!
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#25 Guest_phrogger_*

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Posted 18 October 2006 - 03:21 PM

View Postpossibilities, on Oct 16 2006, 02:22 PM, said:

Some states require proof of paternity in order to process a pre-birth order, TS or GS. If these IP's want a PBO, (and depending on their state of residence/delivery) it may be required as part of their legal process.

Imagine being an IP, who, after say, 15 years of TTC, failed or disrupted adoptions, etc., finally move forward with TS. After hearing horror stories of babies switched at birth, mothers who lie to their spouses about paternity, surros who do not actually insem, surros who have unprotected/poorly protected intercourse prior to cycling, it is no wonder that a little extra reassurance might be needed. Now, after all that, imagine taking a baby home after birth. Years of hurt, pain, and loss fade into the background as the IP's hearts are wound around this little person's finger. Perhaps the babe becomes ill, requiring medical attention. Much to the IP's shock, this child is not biologically related to the IF. Or perhaps the SM has regrets. Regrests so significant that
her only peace can be found in taking the child home. Court proceedings ensue and wouldn't you know.... the child is actually that of the SM and her husband.

Don't say this doesn't happen. IT DOES. Situations like this have come across these very boards.

Why on earth would they not want to spare themselves, the SM & her partner, their extended families, and most importantly THE CHILD, the disruption which comes with undisclosed paternity ?


That is why you have IUI's done if your state requires proof of paternity, and actually there isn't a state that I know of that allows for a PBO for TS that requires anything other then an RE's or OB's statement saying YES they did do the IUI with the intended fathers or donor sperm. You do not have to risk your baby's life. The blood test from what I am reading is not 100% accurate so why even do that?
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#26 Guest_Guest_*

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Posted 18 October 2006 - 03:26 PM

Not a great argument, as we are talking about a human life here, not a pair of pants! I am hoping you are not implying that IP's that end up with a child that has health issues beyond anyone's control should get a "discount" because the child is not perfect...because your argument above implies that.

REPLY - As the Original Poster we NEVER EVER implied a discount based on the baby’s health! We did say that we feel that if, or when we do DNA testing and it is found that the baby’s DNA does not align w the IF then the surrogate should not be paid as outlined in the contract. To reiterate our OP was really only to discuss options pertaining to DNA testing, not compensation, trusting or any of the other issues that have been discussed.

As for the OP, I think it is great if you can find a safe way to test the paternity of the child; but I agree that it is a bad idea to have invasive procedures done for money issues or peace of mind. After all, regardless if the child wasn't your husbands, if you still took the child and raised him/her, the surrogate deserves all compensation; the pregnancy and giving birth is not any less painful because it is not your husband, and that is indeed what you are giving $$ for...whether you see it that way or not.

REPLY- Respectively I do not agree that the TS should be compensated the entire amount as she did not uphold her end of the contract. The way we see it is that we are paying the surro a compensation for pain and discomfort associated with delivering and transferring parental rights to us for the IF’s baby … If we wanted someone else’s baby we would have adopted…

There are risks in all of these ventures, both TS and GS. I would be devastated if my IP's actually thought they were paying me for a healthy baby; because I can say right now that if I were doing this for the money, $25,000 would NOT be my asking price!! For money only, I would ask for $100,000 at least for all the pain and discomfort I am going through, not to mention the strain on my family. The compensation I do get is for my pain and discomfort, as well as my children and husband's sacrifice during this process; not for a baby. I just hope you keep that in mind. Not intended to be a lecture, just a bigger part of the picture!

REPLY- We are not paying for a healthy baby, but we are paying for the IF’s baby, or again to be politically correct we are paying for all the pain and discomfort the surro is going through while delivering the IF’s baby ands the strain on the surro’s family and that is what is outlined in our contract.

We are trying to learn about all our options regarding DNA testing w a mind set the last thing on earth we would ever want to do is to harm the baby or the Surro. We read about the non invasive blood test and was trying to solicit feedback from the group of subject matter experts regarding this process…Have anyone used this method? Is it accurate…. Could you get a false positive…. Could you get a false negative? Does the test tell you the % of noise in the analysis?

I am sorry if we caused any negative posting answering all the questions. It is my nature to answer all questions honestly and completely

Please keep in mind all we are trying to do is learn not insult any members on the board or certainly surrogacy.

Respectively a new inquisitive member
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#27 User is offline   Love2givelife 

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Posted 18 October 2006 - 06:24 PM

They can test for more than one father's dna through the blood test. They'll charge an additional fee for each father they test for. I have not had this test and don't know how accurate it is. Here's a link to a website if you want to read about it: http://www.canadianc...ity_testing.htm If you do a web search on non-invasive paternity testing you'll find all kinds of info. Some of these places list 1-800 numbers that you can call to ask questions.
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#28 User is offline   TXGS 

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Posted 18 October 2006 - 06:44 PM

View PostGuest, on Oct 18 2006, 03:26 PM, said:

REPLY- Respectively I do not agree that the TS should be compensated the entire amount as she did not uphold her end of the contract. The way we see it is that we are paying the surro a compensation for pain and discomfort associated with delivering and transferring parental rights to us for the IF’s baby … If we wanted someone else’s baby we would have adopted…


REPLY- We are not paying for a healthy baby, but we are paying for the IF’s baby, or again to be politically correct we are paying for all the pain and discomfort the surro is going through while delivering the IF’s baby ands the strain on the surro’s family and that is what is outlined in our contract.

We are trying to learn about all our options regarding DNA testing w a mind set the last thing on earth we would ever want to do is to harm the baby or the Surro. We read about the non invasive blood test and was trying to solicit feedback from the group of subject matter experts regarding this process…Have anyone used this method? Is it accurate…. Could you get a false positive…. Could you get a false negative? Does the test tell you the % of noise in the analysis?

I am sorry if we caused any negative posting answering all the questions. It is my nature to answer all questions honestly and completely

Please keep in mind all we are trying to do is learn not insult any members on the board or certainly surrogacy.

Respectively a new inquisitive member


Not trying to be negative at all, although sometimes a question can have an underlying problem or meaning; I noticed you keep saying "to be politically correct" when referring to compensation; does that mean you feel like you are paying for a biological child of your husbands? If the biological aspect of your husband is that important, then you really shouldn't have done home insems; as Erin stated above, the peace of mind as well as legal backing would have been more than worth the money, and trust wouldn't have even been an issue.

I understand completely that you are just wanting some info about paternity testing, and hopefully someone has the answers you need...but I can't help but feel like your wanting to make sure you are "getting what you paid for." While I sympathize and understand your desire to have your husbands bio child, I also think that it might be a good idea for you and your husband, possibly even your surrogate, to attend counseling sessions, as it appears that it could have some problems that arise later, just based on some of your responses.
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#29 User is offline   4ofmyown 

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Posted 18 October 2006 - 08:12 PM

Honestly, I would hope that your TS was honest and abiding by the rules of the contract and NOT having sex when she in trying to get pregnant for you.

But, if such an accident did occur, SHE should be the one to tell you she might have made a mistake.

Please email me. I am sorry that I offended you but written words can be taken out of context so easily and being a hormonal pregnant women...........well, I am sorry. :(/>

So, if you would like to email me feel free to do so. I would like to share something with you. Peoples@acsalaska.net
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#30 User is offline   Daffodil 

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Posted 18 October 2006 - 10:04 PM

Quote

REPLY - As the Original Poster we NEVER EVER implied a discount based on the baby’s health! We did say that we feel that if, or when we do DNA testing and it is found that the baby’s DNA does not align w the IF then the surrogate should not be paid as outlined in the contract. To reiterate our OP was really only to discuss options pertaining to DNA testing, not compensation, trusting or any of the other issues that have been discussed


I think I understand your point. What you are talking about in legal gibberish would be called "remedy for breech of contract".

And I do agree to that up to a point.

"If" the surro did breech the contract and had sex during insems period and it resulted in a baby that is not genetically IF's than IPs are absolutely entitled to seek remedy.

Now... the big question is... what remedy would be acceptable.

If you find out already while she is pg, decision about the baby can be made: will they want to keep it and if so than all payments should stop because obviously in the end you won't get the baby. They should also reimburse you all the monies spent until now.

However, if they "say" (and you cannot get confirmation about that until after birth or if a PBO can be obtain) that they will let you adopt, than you should continue to pay some or all childcare and pregnancy expenses as in open adoption arrangement. The amount of penalty (in form of reduction of the fee to continue paying or any other form imagined by your lawyers :blink:/> ) for remedy will than need to be negociated indeed.

So I clearly see, from your point of view, the pertinence of knowing already if the child is IF's. For some people genetics are important but not gut wrenching. For others it is and its also allright there are no good or bad ways about it. It was important for you you made sure your contract gave you a provision for ensuring that. Than yes, as upsetting as i feel it is to have to take one single risk for the baby, I would oblige. But please understand that for me, in the great scheme of things, it feels like doing an amnio to know the gender of the baby. Nevertheless, If you have reasons to believe that the surro may not have hold her end of the deal, or if conception was super easy while DH is known to have some sperm issues... than ok...
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